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	<title>Comments on: Improving the job market for bloggers and online writers</title>
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	<link>http://freelancewritinggigs.com/networkblogging/improving-the-job-market-for-bloggers-and-online-writers/</link>
	<description>...to you to become a successful blogger</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:01:39 -0700</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: SpikeTheLobster</title>
		<link>http://freelancewritinggigs.com/networkblogging/improving-the-job-market-for-bloggers-and-online-writers/comment-page-1/#comment-2001</link>
		<dc:creator>SpikeTheLobster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:13:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freelancewritinggigs.com/networkblogging/?p=873#comment-2001</guid>
		<description>Beautifully said, Ed. (Ooh, that rhymes.)
One thing I would not like is the certification: like art, who&#039;s qualified to judge what&#039;s good and bad? I mean, I can pass grammar, punctuation and vocab tests easy (they&#039;re now on several of the big freelancing job sites), but that doesn&#039;t make me a good writer. Or a bad one. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beautifully said, Ed. (Ooh, that rhymes.)<br />
One thing I would not like is the certification: like art, who&#8217;s qualified to judge what&#8217;s good and bad? I mean, I can pass grammar, punctuation and vocab tests easy (they&#8217;re now on several of the big freelancing job sites), but that doesn&#8217;t make me a good writer. Or a bad one. <img src='http://freelancewritinggigs.com/networkblogging/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://freelancewritinggigs.com/networkblogging/improving-the-job-market-for-bloggers-and-online-writers/comment-page-1/#comment-2000</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 14:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freelancewritinggigs.com/networkblogging/?p=873#comment-2000</guid>
		<description>Improving the blogging job market will require several actions, many out of our direct control. We will never rid ourselves of the &#039;don&#039;t work for peanuts&#039; concerns because we lump &#039;writers&#039; together like they are some amorphous group. Instead, writing is like any trade; there are some great writers, more average writers and many, many more terrible writers. Some type of certification (even if it is voluntary) needs to be created to help differentiate the groups.

Secondly, writers railing against accepting indecent wages often remind me of women who went through the 60&#039;s and 70&#039;s fighting for equality to now see their younger &#039;sisters&#039; accepting the same conditions originally fought against by the women&#039;s movement. One generation of bloggers needs to pass on the trials and tribulations they went through to succeeding generations.

Third: the rise of &#039;social media&#039; devalued writing while at the same time developing a mindset in writers that such work was valid lead us into the trap we are in today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Improving the blogging job market will require several actions, many out of our direct control. We will never rid ourselves of the &#8216;don&#8217;t work for peanuts&#8217; concerns because we lump &#8216;writers&#8217; together like they are some amorphous group. Instead, writing is like any trade; there are some great writers, more average writers and many, many more terrible writers. Some type of certification (even if it is voluntary) needs to be created to help differentiate the groups.</p>
<p>Secondly, writers railing against accepting indecent wages often remind me of women who went through the 60&#8217;s and 70&#8217;s fighting for equality to now see their younger &#8217;sisters&#8217; accepting the same conditions originally fought against by the women&#8217;s movement. One generation of bloggers needs to pass on the trials and tribulations they went through to succeeding generations.</p>
<p>Third: the rise of &#8217;social media&#8217; devalued writing while at the same time developing a mindset in writers that such work was valid lead us into the trap we are in today.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://freelancewritinggigs.com/networkblogging/improving-the-job-market-for-bloggers-and-online-writers/comment-page-1/#comment-1951</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 02:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freelancewritinggigs.com/networkblogging/?p=873#comment-1951</guid>
		<description>@Emmbee - I have no clue - but that is really weird. Hang on... Ok, I think the deal is that I accidentally posted it in tips, not jobs. Jobs for the 28th should be found on the job link now - http://freelancewritinggigs.com/networkblogging/category/blogging-jobs/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Emmbee &#8211; I have no clue &#8211; but that is really weird. Hang on&#8230; Ok, I think the deal is that I accidentally posted it in tips, not jobs. Jobs for the 28th should be found on the job link now &#8211; <a href="http://freelancewritinggigs.com/networkblogging/category/blogging-jobs/" rel="nofollow">http://freelancewritinggigs.com/networkblogging/category/blogging-jobs/</a></p>
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		<title>By: SpikeTheLobster</title>
		<link>http://freelancewritinggigs.com/networkblogging/improving-the-job-market-for-bloggers-and-online-writers/comment-page-1/#comment-1950</link>
		<dc:creator>SpikeTheLobster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 22:48:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freelancewritinggigs.com/networkblogging/?p=873#comment-1950</guid>
		<description>Lots of good stuff there, Jennifer. Thanks for the complete response. A few things, then I&#039;ll go away and leave you in peace... I had typed this whole big response, but it&#039;s unnecessary (and it&#039;s late, so it might sound really aggressive when it isn&#039;t). 

I shall just reiterate my concern that I would think it unfair for a relatively new writer to see a statement like that (the salary one) and feel guilty for taking a low-paid job. I maintain that it&#039;s something for established writers and perhaps affects the established-writer market more.

Your experience is cool, and is exactly what I meant - you have background, experience and so on, so would expect better pay. I don&#039;t know what the market was like 3-4 years ago, but I suspect there weren&#039;t 150 people bidding on every job (though I suspect there were a heck of a lot fewer available roles!). Bear in mind that I talk to maybe two new-to-me established writer every week and about a dozen entirely-new writers every day, so my view is probably skewed.

You say it beautifully yourself: &quot;I think if you enter the blogging and online market empty handed, yeah, you might need to work for less, but really I don’t think it’s wise to enter this market empty handed because the best paying gigs want to see experience of some sort.&quot;

This is still a really, really good article, despite my contention on that one point. ;)

(Incidentally: &quot;In my opinion $2.22 per hour is WAY too low&quot; - I still have a copy of an ad offering &lt;b&gt;89 cents&lt;/b&gt; per hour. How scary is that? Bleh!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lots of good stuff there, Jennifer. Thanks for the complete response. A few things, then I&#8217;ll go away and leave you in peace&#8230; I had typed this whole big response, but it&#8217;s unnecessary (and it&#8217;s late, so it might sound really aggressive when it isn&#8217;t). </p>
<p>I shall just reiterate my concern that I would think it unfair for a relatively new writer to see a statement like that (the salary one) and feel guilty for taking a low-paid job. I maintain that it&#8217;s something for established writers and perhaps affects the established-writer market more.</p>
<p>Your experience is cool, and is exactly what I meant &#8211; you have background, experience and so on, so would expect better pay. I don&#8217;t know what the market was like 3-4 years ago, but I suspect there weren&#8217;t 150 people bidding on every job (though I suspect there were a heck of a lot fewer available roles!). Bear in mind that I talk to maybe two new-to-me established writer every week and about a dozen entirely-new writers every day, so my view is probably skewed.</p>
<p>You say it beautifully yourself: &#8220;I think if you enter the blogging and online market empty handed, yeah, you might need to work for less, but really I don’t think it’s wise to enter this market empty handed because the best paying gigs want to see experience of some sort.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is still a really, really good article, despite my contention on that one point. <img src='http://freelancewritinggigs.com/networkblogging/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>(Incidentally: &#8220;In my opinion $2.22 per hour is WAY too low&#8221; &#8211; I still have a copy of an ad offering <b>89 cents</b> per hour. How scary is that? Bleh!)</p>
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		<title>By: emmbee</title>
		<link>http://freelancewritinggigs.com/networkblogging/improving-the-job-market-for-bloggers-and-online-writers/comment-page-1/#comment-1948</link>
		<dc:creator>emmbee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 19:57:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freelancewritinggigs.com/networkblogging/?p=873#comment-1948</guid>
		<description>Hey Everybody: What happened to the old lists of gigs, like the ones from yesterday? I checked the list yesterday, but now the whole list is gone. Were these archived somewhere? Now today&#039;s list is gone as well. What&#039;s the deal?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Everybody: What happened to the old lists of gigs, like the ones from yesterday? I checked the list yesterday, but now the whole list is gone. Were these archived somewhere? Now today&#8217;s list is gone as well. What&#8217;s the deal?</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://freelancewritinggigs.com/networkblogging/improving-the-job-market-for-bloggers-and-online-writers/comment-page-1/#comment-1947</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 19:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freelancewritinggigs.com/networkblogging/?p=873#comment-1947</guid>
		<description>Hey again Spike - I agree about the free work. I once was asked to write a free piece for a HUGE site as a favor, and almost didn&#039;t, but in this case, it would look amazing on my resume so I did it. The editor has since remembered me for real gigs so that&#039;s cool. 

You say, &quot;blogging for a lower starting pay? What’s the option? Do it and earn, put food on the table and hopefully get something better afterwards OR don’t do it and don’t work.&quot;

It might come down to how low of pay you&#039;re talking. In my opinion $2.22 per hour is WAY too low. $5 a post is reasonably low because if you can do many in an hour, even though it sounds low, you&#039;d be making ok wages. $5 for a post that takes an hour is too low in my opinion as well. I&#039;m an advocate of reasonable pay for a lot of reasons, but here in particular because one, I won&#039;t take crap paying jobs so why should I tell others to and two, this site is about making a living as a writer, not making some cash on the side. I&#039;d rather quit writing than work for peanuts - to me this is a JOB, and real jobs pay, and while I also love blogging, I don&#039;t love it enough to starve my son for it. 

My first paid blogging gig was I think over three or four years ago, my first online writing gig was before that, and before that I wrote for other writing venues (mags, business, etc). For a while in between, I didn&#039;t blog or write online for a bit, and now I&#039;ve been doing this FT for about two years. 

I really don&#039;t think that you have to start with low paying gigs IF you bring something to the table in the first place - like previous writing experience (preferably some of that writing should be blog-based), expertise in the topic area, or a good amount of personal blogging experience with a good blog to show off. I think if you enter the blogging and online market empty handed, yeah, you might need to work for less, but really I don&#039;t think it&#039;s wise to enter this market empty handed because the best paying gigs want to see experience of some sort. 

I think it&#039;s easier to break into writing elsewhere then transition to blogs an online - BUT of course that&#039;s my experience. On a side note though, many of the successful bloggers and online writers I know did the same thing - broke into writing in another venue, kept a personal blog for a while, and then jumped in.

All of this comes down to you being right about one thing for sure, &quot;a lot of it comes down to personal experience.&quot; I guess I&#039;d just like to make that personal experience better and more time worthy for most of us. 

PS I&#039;ve taken a job for low pay, like you once, because it was fun - that&#039;s a whole other issue :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey again Spike &#8211; I agree about the free work. I once was asked to write a free piece for a HUGE site as a favor, and almost didn&#8217;t, but in this case, it would look amazing on my resume so I did it. The editor has since remembered me for real gigs so that&#8217;s cool. </p>
<p>You say, &#8220;blogging for a lower starting pay? What’s the option? Do it and earn, put food on the table and hopefully get something better afterwards OR don’t do it and don’t work.&#8221;</p>
<p>It might come down to how low of pay you&#8217;re talking. In my opinion $2.22 per hour is WAY too low. $5 a post is reasonably low because if you can do many in an hour, even though it sounds low, you&#8217;d be making ok wages. $5 for a post that takes an hour is too low in my opinion as well. I&#8217;m an advocate of reasonable pay for a lot of reasons, but here in particular because one, I won&#8217;t take crap paying jobs so why should I tell others to and two, this site is about making a living as a writer, not making some cash on the side. I&#8217;d rather quit writing than work for peanuts &#8211; to me this is a JOB, and real jobs pay, and while I also love blogging, I don&#8217;t love it enough to starve my son for it. </p>
<p>My first paid blogging gig was I think over three or four years ago, my first online writing gig was before that, and before that I wrote for other writing venues (mags, business, etc). For a while in between, I didn&#8217;t blog or write online for a bit, and now I&#8217;ve been doing this FT for about two years. </p>
<p>I really don&#8217;t think that you have to start with low paying gigs IF you bring something to the table in the first place &#8211; like previous writing experience (preferably some of that writing should be blog-based), expertise in the topic area, or a good amount of personal blogging experience with a good blog to show off. I think if you enter the blogging and online market empty handed, yeah, you might need to work for less, but really I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s wise to enter this market empty handed because the best paying gigs want to see experience of some sort. </p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s easier to break into writing elsewhere then transition to blogs an online &#8211; BUT of course that&#8217;s my experience. On a side note though, many of the successful bloggers and online writers I know did the same thing &#8211; broke into writing in another venue, kept a personal blog for a while, and then jumped in.</p>
<p>All of this comes down to you being right about one thing for sure, &#8220;a lot of it comes down to personal experience.&#8221; I guess I&#8217;d just like to make that personal experience better and more time worthy for most of us. </p>
<p>PS I&#8217;ve taken a job for low pay, like you once, because it was fun &#8211; that&#8217;s a whole other issue <img src='http://freelancewritinggigs.com/networkblogging/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: SpikeTheLobster</title>
		<link>http://freelancewritinggigs.com/networkblogging/improving-the-job-market-for-bloggers-and-online-writers/comment-page-1/#comment-1946</link>
		<dc:creator>SpikeTheLobster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 19:03:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freelancewritinggigs.com/networkblogging/?p=873#comment-1946</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m going to have to continue to disagree. Blogging for free (or ANY kind of work for free) is immensely dumb, that&#039;s true - unless it happens to be a front-page article for Time Magazine or something. That really will get you nowhere.

But blogging for a lower starting pay? What&#039;s the option? Do it and earn, put food on the table and hopefully get something better afterwards OR don&#039;t do it and don&#039;t work. Hmmm. Tough choice. I&#039;ll go for door number one, please.

Don&#039;t get me wrong, I don&#039;t think people should &lt;b&gt;consistently&lt;/b&gt; do it. I&#039;m just saying that the lower end is often the ONLY way to get in. Your own personal blog? Why would they care - you set the rules, you set the criteria, you post when you want, you do what you want. Yes, it shows that you have endurance and can write, but that&#039;s it. I&#039;d be very surprised if you&#039;d be considered anywhere near as interesting as someone who&#039;d guest-blogged (even at $1/500 - they wouldn&#039;t know) and been published on various sites.

So far, I&#039;ve taken on two low-paid jobs. They should be the last: one is ongoing because it&#039;s fun (which is why I&#039;m doing it) and the other REALLY wants me to continue, so is willing to throw in extras. Because of those, I&#039;ve been contacted by other people, at better prices. I have my foot in the door - but ONLY because I did the cheap jobs first. (I know this, because I know where the potential clients saw my name.)

Looking at this very calmly and in detached fashion, I think a lot of it comes down to &lt;b&gt;personal experience&lt;/b&gt;. Nearly ALL the starting freelancers I know can&#039;t get the good gigs: they&#039;re overlooked for &quot;more established&quot; people and they have to start at the crappy end. Nearly ALL the comments on ruining the business, encouraging low pay and so on come from established bloggers/writers/workers who&#039;ve noticed a decline in their workload or pay. 

For example, you mention your first paid gig, Jennifer - was that in the last few months, or a year or more ago? (That&#039;s not a pointed question, I&#039;m genuinely interested to know if you bucked the trend I see so often!)

Like I say, personal experience. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m going to have to continue to disagree. Blogging for free (or ANY kind of work for free) is immensely dumb, that&#8217;s true &#8211; unless it happens to be a front-page article for Time Magazine or something. That really will get you nowhere.</p>
<p>But blogging for a lower starting pay? What&#8217;s the option? Do it and earn, put food on the table and hopefully get something better afterwards OR don&#8217;t do it and don&#8217;t work. Hmmm. Tough choice. I&#8217;ll go for door number one, please.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I don&#8217;t think people should <b>consistently</b> do it. I&#8217;m just saying that the lower end is often the ONLY way to get in. Your own personal blog? Why would they care &#8211; you set the rules, you set the criteria, you post when you want, you do what you want. Yes, it shows that you have endurance and can write, but that&#8217;s it. I&#8217;d be very surprised if you&#8217;d be considered anywhere near as interesting as someone who&#8217;d guest-blogged (even at $1/500 &#8211; they wouldn&#8217;t know) and been published on various sites.</p>
<p>So far, I&#8217;ve taken on two low-paid jobs. They should be the last: one is ongoing because it&#8217;s fun (which is why I&#8217;m doing it) and the other REALLY wants me to continue, so is willing to throw in extras. Because of those, I&#8217;ve been contacted by other people, at better prices. I have my foot in the door &#8211; but ONLY because I did the cheap jobs first. (I know this, because I know where the potential clients saw my name.)</p>
<p>Looking at this very calmly and in detached fashion, I think a lot of it comes down to <b>personal experience</b>. Nearly ALL the starting freelancers I know can&#8217;t get the good gigs: they&#8217;re overlooked for &#8220;more established&#8221; people and they have to start at the crappy end. Nearly ALL the comments on ruining the business, encouraging low pay and so on come from established bloggers/writers/workers who&#8217;ve noticed a decline in their workload or pay. </p>
<p>For example, you mention your first paid gig, Jennifer &#8211; was that in the last few months, or a year or more ago? (That&#8217;s not a pointed question, I&#8217;m genuinely interested to know if you bucked the trend I see so often!)</p>
<p>Like I say, personal experience. <img src='http://freelancewritinggigs.com/networkblogging/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://freelancewritinggigs.com/networkblogging/improving-the-job-market-for-bloggers-and-online-writers/comment-page-1/#comment-1945</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 17:51:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freelancewritinggigs.com/networkblogging/?p=873#comment-1945</guid>
		<description>Agreed. I&#039;ve been considering getting back into print, and many of the markets I&#039;ve been checking out do want free work. However, I really believe that you get what you pay for. I think eventually (hopefully) clients will realize this. I&#039;ve scored higher paying blog gigs by pointing this out to a potential client. The client will say, &quot;I&#039;ve got so and so offering to work for free.. why hire you who wants pay?&quot; I always point out, you get what you pay for, and sometimes it works. Many clients do want decent writers and don&#039;t want to do the hiring process over and over to get it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed. I&#8217;ve been considering getting back into print, and many of the markets I&#8217;ve been checking out do want free work. However, I really believe that you get what you pay for. I think eventually (hopefully) clients will realize this. I&#8217;ve scored higher paying blog gigs by pointing this out to a potential client. The client will say, &#8220;I&#8217;ve got so and so offering to work for free.. why hire you who wants pay?&#8221; I always point out, you get what you pay for, and sometimes it works. Many clients do want decent writers and don&#8217;t want to do the hiring process over and over to get it.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://freelancewritinggigs.com/networkblogging/improving-the-job-market-for-bloggers-and-online-writers/comment-page-1/#comment-1944</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 17:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freelancewritinggigs.com/networkblogging/?p=873#comment-1944</guid>
		<description>Yeah, a lot of people disagree with &quot;Only accept decent wages&quot; BUT I don&#039;t agree that it only applies to established bloggers. If you blog at your own site for a while before applying to gigs, and learn the ins and outs of blogging, you ARE established. My first paid blogging gig came after I had already been blogging a good long while at my personal blog and it wasn&#039;t penny or revenue only pay either. If you&#039;re not a blogger in any way shape or form, then why apply to blog gigs? If clients only hired bloggers to I don&#039;t know, blog, it might raise the bar. 

I agree that reliability and flexibility are good points too. I&#039;ve also talked to clients who are fed up with bloggers, although, I&#039;m wagering that the bulk of these were folks who decided to blog on a whim, didn&#039;t know the biz, and thus we&#039;re back to the whole don&#039;t apply if you have no clue issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, a lot of people disagree with &#8220;Only accept decent wages&#8221; BUT I don&#8217;t agree that it only applies to established bloggers. If you blog at your own site for a while before applying to gigs, and learn the ins and outs of blogging, you ARE established. My first paid blogging gig came after I had already been blogging a good long while at my personal blog and it wasn&#8217;t penny or revenue only pay either. If you&#8217;re not a blogger in any way shape or form, then why apply to blog gigs? If clients only hired bloggers to I don&#8217;t know, blog, it might raise the bar. </p>
<p>I agree that reliability and flexibility are good points too. I&#8217;ve also talked to clients who are fed up with bloggers, although, I&#8217;m wagering that the bulk of these were folks who decided to blog on a whim, didn&#8217;t know the biz, and thus we&#8217;re back to the whole don&#8217;t apply if you have no clue issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://freelancewritinggigs.com/networkblogging/improving-the-job-market-for-bloggers-and-online-writers/comment-page-1/#comment-1943</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 17:43:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freelancewritinggigs.com/networkblogging/?p=873#comment-1943</guid>
		<description>Right - it&#039;s a good point to value the good gigs. If you&#039;ve got them, do your best for sure because right now they&#039;re few and far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right &#8211; it&#8217;s a good point to value the good gigs. If you&#8217;ve got them, do your best for sure because right now they&#8217;re few and far.</p>
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